Keith, there’s no doubt that you’re right in your bet.

I think it would be so much more fun, however, to go to a debate on this topic where PvI is on the “no” side and MT is on the “yes”.

I experienced this once, when I was on a team of students from the Philosophy Department where I was a graduate student. We debated students from the Studies in Religion Department on the existence of God. Being philosophers, we had the “no” side, while the religious studies people had “yes”. Apparently, I was rather convincing when I took up the Problem of Evil.

A lovely atheist/agnostic friend on my team took it upon himself at the end of the debate to explain that there were actually believers on the philosophy side (like me) and atheists on the religious studies side.

I wonder what we’d learn if we asked PvI to speak on why we shouldn’t believe in God, and MT to speak on why we should.

I think it would be so much more fun, however, to go to a debate on this topic where PvI is on the “no” side and MT is on the “yes”.

Greg: I actually had exactly that thought as I wrote the last sentence of the post!

In reading this post, I am immediately reminded of these words from the final paragraph of Michel de Certeau’s remarkable essay: “How is Christianity Thinkable Today?”:

“The Christian faith has no security other than the living God discovered by communities which are alive and which undergo the experience of losing objective securities. … That is the first question: no longer to know whether God exists, but to exist as Christian communities.”

To be quite honest, for us as Christians, I don’t think it is ever a question of whether God exists. The real question is rather if and how we exist.

This is the forgotten brilliance of Anselm’s argument in the Proslogion.

To be quite honest, for us as Christians, I don’t think it is ever a question of whether God exists.

For many — in fact, for many who believe and for many who don’t — this is not in question. For many others, though, the question of the debate (“Should We Believe in God?”) is one of the most pressing questions there is.

(I taught a course this Fall entitled “Belief in the Existence of God” — the syllabus is on-line at http://pantheon.yale.edu/~kd47/280.htm . Given the level & meeting time of the course, only a handful of students was expected, and I was assigned a nice little room designed to accommodate about 12 students. Fortunately, I got wind of the possibility that more students than that were interested, and managed to get the class moved to a lecture room designed for almost 100 students. On the first day, every seat was taken, students were sitting on the floor, and there were even some standing outside in the hallway, trying to hear. The topic seemed to be a very big draw: Philosophy classes at that level meeting at 9 AM just don’t get that many students. I don’t know if any other topic would have been as strong a draw.)

I don’t know about what you say about Christians, Nate —

To be quite honest, for us as Christians, I don’t think it is ever a question of whether God exists.

Maybe; but I hope not. Among those who find that this is (or at least is becoming) a question for them are some who were brought up in Christian communities — brought up accepting that this is not ever a question for us as Christians. That this is not ever a question for us as Christians is very disturbing for one who is finding that is becoming a question for her. Of course, it could be disturbing but true. Maybe this is the kind of disturbing realization that’s just what’s needed to warn someone that something is very wrong, and might even lead to getting things really fixed up. Maybe. But my own suspicion is that God has a purpose for leaving some of us in a dark, quiet place of questions for certain periods of time, and that the way to respond is in part to honestly face what questions one is left with — even to the point of questioning God’s existence, if that’s where one is left. And my fear is that the thought that God’s existence is not ever a question for us as Christians leads to suppressing that question or denying that it has become a question and merely acting as if it’s not a question for one.

I appreciate your comments Keith. My own Christian life, for example, has personally been spotted with several periods of serious questioning concerning God’s existence. This was especially difficult while I was in seminary, where it was virtually impossible to wrestle with these doubts publicly. An intellectual context of unflinching certainty on the question quite possibly contributed more to the angst of my experience than the substance of the doubts themselves!

Thanks for putting the word out about this conference. I plan on attending it, since I’m an Amherst resident and former philosopher at UMass. I’ll give you a review of how it goes down! My friend Andrew Dole, who’s professor of religious studies at Amherst College, told me that some find Pvl to be too aggressive and heated in debate. We’ll see . . .

I’ve been in the audience when PvI gave a paper (back when I was at NYU), and he’s been in the audience when I’ve given a paper. These weren’t debates, but they had question periods, which, as those who have been to enough philosophy events know, can turn into debates — and worse! So, anyway, I’ve questioned him & he’s questioned me — we’ve publically tussled on more than one occasion. In my experience, at least, he’s always been very reasonable and thoughtful — much light; little heat.

I recall van Inwagen as being somewhat belligerent when he gave a talk on personal identity at Boise State University. Does anyone know whether these lectures are going to be recorded?

A college newspaper reports the debate here (ht prosblogion).

PvI says, “I don’t have any solid evidence that God does exist. … The belief in God should be un-coercive”

And: “”All philosophical arguments are failures, mainly because there is always someone who doesn’t believe it. But what philosophers can do is tell stories, or defenses.”

Thanks for the reference Steve. Picking up on the question of evil that was raised by the report you linked, I recently came across an interesting article on the forthcoming book co-authored by Tooley and another Notre Dame giant — Al Plantinga:

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2005/03/24/special_reports/religion/22_40_313_23_05.txt

Sorry, I’m terrible. Don’t even know how to link, so I just had to paste in the URL. Here’s the rest of it:

313_23_05.txt